The hearings of the Independent Commission against Corruption on the former Prime Minister’s dealings with Daryl Maguire will continue for a second day. Follow live
Sun Oct 31, 2021 23:24 GMT
First published on Sun. Oct. 31, 2021, 21.05 GMT
11:24 p.m. GMT23: 24
Berejiklian says what Maguire told her during the July 5, 2018 phone call is « insignificant » and she did not « keep it ».
The question I asked myself was, “Did I know something? … and the answer in my head is very strong that I didn’t know anything about what this commission was investigating.
Robertson says Berejiklian could have said all of this in a report to Icac. She could have told the commission that she believed Maguire when he protested his innocence.
Robertson suggests that Maguire gave her other details unrelated to the Canterbury City Council investigation that she could have given Icac.
She said she did not recall or save this information because she did not believe there was any wrongdoing.
I did not suspect him of corrupt behavior. For me that was absolutely not the person I knew, not the person I trusted.
11:18 p.m. GMT23: 18
Commissioner Ruth McColl is pushing this point. After Daryl Maguire’s testimony to Icac, why didn’t Gladys Berejiklian report her previous phone call warning him not to deal with « shady » employees?
McColl says she could have told her all the details Maguire could have told her about his Connections and interactions with Canterbury City Council and the property developers.
Scott Robertson asks her how her belief that he did nothing wrong could be true since she removed him from his parliamentary position and made a public statement condemning him.
11:12 p.m. GMT23: 12
Robertson reminds Berejiklian that during her 52-minute phone call with Maguire prior to his appearance on Icac, she repeatedly insisted that she believed him, trusted him and therefore did not believe he was involved in any wrongdoing.
Hadn’t that « exploded » when his later Icac appearance showed Berejiklian that he was lying, asks Robertson.
The former Prime Minister says again that she just thought Maguire was inadvertently involved and has been associated with people involved in misconduct:
I certainly wouldn’t know anything, if I had, I would have reported something. What bore fruit on July 13th could be seen publicly.
11:08 p.m. GMT23: 08
Scott Robertson gets to the heart of this question. Did you suspect Mr Maguire was corrupt? He asks.
I didn’t tell him he was involved in something he wasn’t fully aware of … I never suspected he was corrupt.
Given that Berejiklian told him from removed from his role and put him on the bench and made a public statement saying Maguire had « let down his voters, » hadn’t she at least suspected that he was involved in corrupt behavior?
She says she knew he was under « a cloud, » but said the Icac investigation, Operation Dasher, has yet to continue.
Robertson asks Berejiklian if she should have told Icac everything she knew about Maguire at this point:
I had nothing to report. There was nothing I knew, nothing I remembered, nothing I thought was relevant.
11:04 p.m. GMT23: 04
Robertson urges Berejiklian, after testifying before Icac on July 13, 2018, whether she thought Maguire lied to her. Recall that prior to this hearing, Maguire assured the Prime Minister that he had done nothing wrong.
I kept racking my brain, firstly, to what extent he had remained truthful and secondly, to what extent the investigation would reveal more about his activities.
She says she was « overwhelmed by the shock and sadness of what happened in the hearing because he assured me that there was nothing to worry about and that he had done nothing wrong »:
I questioned everything. I’ve questioned everything I could have known … I can’t express how much this was a shock to the system.
23:00 GMT23: 00
Berejiklian will now be asked about her reaction to Maguire’s evidence at Icac on July 13, 2018. This evidence showed that Maguire was involved in a « money making exercise » involving a Canterbury City Council member and property developers.
Robertson suggests that it became clear from this hearing that Maguire had close relationships with people involved in wrongdoing.
She said she was concerned that Maguire was in her « orbit » but said she did not know how closely involved they were:
I was very concerned about what might happen. I wasn’t sure and was very worried.
She replies that she thought something was « wrong » but wasn’t sure what happened. At least she realized that he was « under a cloud »:
I was shocked by what had happened and I assumed he was involved in something, but I wasn’t sure of the extent. From a public point of view, there were clearly questions to be answered.
10:54 p.m. GMT22: 54
Berejiklian says that she suspects Maguire simply complained about the presentation of the budget and the lack of a separate post for Wagga Wagga Hospital, rather than the lack of actual money.
That is normal, she said, because MPs want to show their voters that they are represented.
22:50 GMT22: 50
We’re hearing new evidence about the $ 170 million Maguire applied for for Wagga Wagga Hospital in 2018.
You may recall that Maguire complained to Berejiklian about the lack of funding for the hospital in a tapped call in May 2018 and that Berejiklian called the treasurer Dominic Perrottet to « fix the problem ».
The Commission now learns that funding was « already in play » and that a year before that phone call it was decided to fund it.
It learns that the funding was already included in the previous budget papers, long before the interview with Maguire. It didn’t appear as a line item in the impending budget that Maguire was complaining about.
The money was already provided in the budget. But MPs like to see it as a separate item … the money was already there, that’s how it was presented.
The dollars were already on budget. Nobody on this planet could get that much money … I would never have been able to make that much money in five minutes. It’s just absurd. Absolutely absurd.
10:40 p.m. GMT22: 40
Berejiklian suggests that she had to listen to the 52-minute phone call between her and Maguire, in which he talks about an upcoming performance by Icac.
Robertson corrects her, says they only have « excerpts » heard and then kindly offers to play the whole thing.
22:38 GMT22: 38
Robertson asks if that means that Maguire has more information than « big brother » or which investigative agency they discussed.
Ruth McColl asks if she thought it was « curious » that Maguire was aware of it insisted she had done nothing wrong, still wanted her to get a private phone.
10:35 p.m. GMT22: 35
No, not really, this is a privacy issue. He wasn’t the only one who suggested that to me.
She is led to another message in which Berejiklian replied to Maguire and asked if « everything was okay? ».
Doesn’t this message show that you are concerned about the suggestion that you need a phone?
10:33 p.m. GMT22: 33
Icac discusses texts in which Daryl Maguire asked Gladys Berejiklian to download the encrypted messaging service WeChat.
He may have told me, but other colleagues did too because I was someone who never had a separate phone.
10:29 p.m. GMT22: 29
Robertson asks if she asked her Chief of Staff Sarah Cruickshank for advice on what to do between her call with Maguire on July 5, 2018 (about his impending Icac appearance) and his testimony on July 13, 2018 / p> She is taken to a comment on that call asking Maguire if recordings of their conversations « would be a problem? » Bugged calls with Mr Maguire?
She said she had done nothing wrong and therefore need not worry. Maguire had assured her that he hadn’t either, and she believed him:
I was very sure that he didn’t do anything wrong. And I was sure I hadn’t done anything wrong.
10:25 p.m. GMT22: 25
I assumed no wrongdoing and assumed that if he had any private interests they would be appropriately disclosed.
Robertson mentions that she had a 52 minute phone call with Maguire about his upcoming appearance on Icac and asks:
I didn’t think anything was wrong because I pushed him several times. This is someone I trusted. Someone my colleagues trusted.
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